Inflammation, Fibrosis, and Aging: The Galectin-3 Story | Dr. Joel Kahn

[00:00:00] Joel Kahn : Because we know how critical it is for longevity and quality of life, to have a heart that remains as youthful as possible.

[00:00:07] And then galectin-3, beyond causing inflammation and artery damage and scarring of the heart tissue, does do some other things that people should be aware of. Like promoting fatty liver disease,  galectin-3. Leading to insulin resistance,  galectin-3. Damaging the kidneys through pathways of inflammation, fibrosis. And actually a very interesting series of studies saying that people that are struggling with their weight very often have elevated  galectin-3. And it’s worth checking it. But even more exciting than the ability to check this highly research based, you know, we call it a biomarker, lab test  galectin-3, and seeing if you’re falling in the normal range, intermediate range, or the directly abnormal range, is we have a very natural inhibitor of  galectin-3.

[00:01:02] Now, of course, lose the weight, do the exercise, clean up your diet, get to the dentist, treat your sleep apnea, deal with your skin issues. We’re talking always about a holistic approach to health. But what if we could actually block a major mediator of scarring, fibrosis, inflammation, and some of these other pathologies? 

[00:01:22] 

[00:01:24] Dr. Z new: Hey friends, this is Dr. Eric Zielinski. Most people just call me Dr. Z. Welcome to the Natural Living Family Podcast. 

[00:01:30] Together we’ll uncover biblical wisdom and practical tools to help you and your family escape the confusion of this toxic world and walk in the abundant life God has promised. This isn’t about chasing trends or doing it all. It’s about renewing your mind, rejecting broken systems, and embracing God’s design for healing and wholeness.

[00:01:51] The truth is God has a beautiful plan for your life, and yes, your health matters to Him. Are you ready to get started? Awesome. Let’s dive in.

[00:02:01] Dr. Z: Dr. Kahn, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. 

[00:02:04] Joel Kahn : Thank you. This is gonna be a fun and very important topic. 

[00:02:09] Dr. Z: It is, and I can think of no one else better suited than you to discuss on this yet before we get into the nitty gritty, it’s just fun just to stroll down memory lane with you. My alma mater, Wayne State University, where I first cut my teeth in higher education. You’re an active professor there and you ran, I think at one point you closed, right? But a wonderful, wonderful plant-based restaurant in Ferndale, Michigan. My old stomping ground.

[00:02:34] Joel Kahn : Uhhuh.

[00:02:34] Dr. Z: So we have a lot of, hi. We have a lot of history in Detroit. 

[00:02:38] Joel Kahn : Yeah, absolutely.

[00:02:39] And, yeah, they say the best two days in the restaurant business are the day you open and the day you close. And I’ve had the pleasure of enjoying both. 

[00:02:48] Dr. Z: I love it. You know what was great though, by the way, it was you being there. It was really, it was a nice added touch, you know, it was like grandpa over there making sure every, the family was good.

[00:02:57] You know? I felt like I was in New York City at like an Italian restaurant with the owner, you know, like the guy from from the old country. But you had a really nice just homely family feel. And just, I just say that to say that that’s an element that oftentimes we, for, we, we don’t experience.

[00:03:13] ‘Cause you’re brilliant, you have all this experience. You’ve been able to help so many people. You’re gonna blow everyone’s minds today. But ultimately, you’re a dad, you’re a granddad, you’re an entrepreneur, you help people. So I just wanna thank you for being who you are and being the real deal, my friend.

[00:03:28] You know, you didn’t open up a McDonald’s franchise. You know what I mean? 

[00:03:32] Joel Kahn : Yeah, no. We do believe in eating whole foods as close to nature as possible and provided them in beautiful situations as long as we could. But, the best cooking is probably to be found at home. So that’s what we do now.

[00:03:48] Yes, sir. 

[00:03:49] Dr. Z: Well, awesome. Well, hey, let’s dive right into it. We’re gonna go right into the fundamentals and we’re gonna talk about inflammation and heart disease. And I’m really hoping you could demystify what it is, what it isn’t for people, why it’s so important. 

[00:04:01] So what’s your take on this and let’s start there. 

[00:04:04] Joel Kahn : And you know, my background is 35 years of practicing cardiology, both in the cath lab and stent world, and predominantly now in the preventive world. But you know, the enemy is atherosclerosis. The creature that causes more pain, suffering, and death than any other illness in the United States and most of the Western World is hardening of the arteries, stiffening of the arteries, damage to the arteries.

[00:04:29] It could be through the brain and lead to dementia and stroke. Could be through the heart, lead to heart attack symptoms, congestive heart failure and sudden death. Just dropping dead like so many people do. About 350,000 people a year in the United States just drop dead. Don’t get to say goodbye to their loved ones. It’s horrible.

[00:04:49] And it can involve the kidney arteries and the kidneys and the leg arteries, and it’s such a quality-of-life limiting disease. And there’s been efforts for over a hundred years to understand why do some species like a dog, rarely ever develop atherosclerosis and humans we’re just sitting ducks for it.

[00:05:09] We are so prone to atherosclerosis and you know, there’s always a controversy how big a portion is cholesterol disorders, genetic cholesterol, or dietary related cholesterol disorders. High blood pressure. High blood sugar for sure, and an interesting pathway called, advanced glycation end products that a high blood sugar creates.

[00:05:30] But amongst the conversation is always inflammation and that middle word, flame. Igniting the immune system. Which initially may be responding to heal and to help a situation by activating the immune system and bringing in, the white blood cell warriors. But getting in a situation where it goes wrong and it’s now becoming not acute inflammation to heal, but chronic inflammation.

[00:05:58] Chronic overproduction of enzymes and factors that can really attack our tissues and chronic inflammation. And you always have to ask why is there inflammation, the root cause of it? As you practice your patient care, and Dr. Wolfson does, and I do. But chronic inflammation can be measured in the blood and needs to be reversed for optimal health.

[00:06:22] So we’re gonna talk a little bit about novel pathways of inflammation. You know, people have heard the word High Sensitivity C Reactive Protein as one blood test and one screening test for inflammation. But we’re gonna go a different pathway that has profound science and really will educate your audience, hopefully, for ways to optimize your health.

[00:06:47] Dr. Z: So with that then, what’s the role of fibrosis in heart disease?

[00:06:51] Joel Kahn : Yeah, even scarier than inflammation. ’cause acute inflammation, you know, you get a bug bite and it’s all swollen, red, and painful, and then it goes away in 24 hours. Is reversible.

[00:07:03] Chronic inflammation as can be measured by a variety of blood tests. Can be reversible.

[00:07:09] You might have to start going to the dentist. You might have to drop weight, change your diet, get rid of the sugar added in your diet and other factors, do some exercise to treat your sleep apnea on and on.

[00:07:21] But fibrosis is scarring. Fibrosis is permanent destruction of otherwise healthy tissue. And it can be limited or it can be widespread. So we know with age, one of the biggest enemies is actually the word fibrosis. The scarring of arteries and livers and heart muscle tissue and brain tissue.

[00:07:43] And of course, if you have a stroke, one of the responses is that the tissue becomes scarred and fibrotic, and you might be able to see that on a CT or MRI. And if you have a heart attack, we know that one of the responses is fibrosis and scarring that can be seen on, mRI the best, but echocardiography.

[00:08:04] You do not want your tissues to become fibrotic. So science has been looking at, you know, why are there specific diseases like idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis where the lungs become horribly scarred, unrelated to smoking or asbestos? But why is there other organs, and particularly the heart, prone to fibrosis?

[00:08:25] And one of the pathways, a little bit different than standard inflammatory pathways, is a pathway through a very interesting molecule called galectin-3, G-A-L-E-C-T-I-N dash three. Which isn’t just a theoretical conversation ’cause the minute we get off this conversation, anybody can go to their local Quest lab or LabCorp lab and get a blood test for  galectin-3. So it’s not something that’s highfalutin science that has no practicality.

[00:08:57] People might wanna know where they are with this fibrosis inducing, molecule called  galectin-3. so let you know, we’ll spend a little time talking about that, I imagine. 

[00:09:08] Dr. Z: So just to kind of fit the pieces together. Inflammation, the root mechanism, right of heart disease, what we’re talking about here. Increasing risk, heart attack and stroke, contributing to fibrosis, right? Is that the primary key? 

[00:09:24] Joel Kahn : Right. Contributing to, you know, damage to arteries that ultimately leads to permanent damage.

[00:09:32] Dr. Z: Yeah.

[00:09:32] Joel Kahn : And, and not just in arteries, but actually in the organs. The heart organ, the kidney organ, the liver organ. And that is, scar tissue.

[00:09:39] None of us would be happy to have a obvious scar in our face that we should be equally concerned about detectable, chronic, progressive scarring of our organs. And we can measure that. And we have the ability now to work to reverse it and prevent it. 

[00:09:55] Dr. Z: And so when that scarring builds up in the arterial vessels, that can affect endothelial function that can cause plaque buildup.

[00:10:06] So we’re kind of demystifying this concept that it’s too much cholesterol in the diet. That’s, that’s the misnomer. ’cause I think if there’s anything that you could, you know, wrap that up and then we’re gonna go to  galectin and how to really monitor this and how to evaluate and give people more of an empowerment behind it.

[00:10:23] I use the word inflammation as the mechanism, because it’s not the cause. Like what’s causing the inflammation to begin with? And everyone has their own take on it and it’s all complimentary. I focus on artificial fragrances and phthalates and other things that we know that are easily avoidable in your body care and cleaning products.

[00:10:39] So, is there anything you’d like to speak on on behalf of that? Specifically about things that people need to really think about maybe outside the box? Regarding inflammation and what they really need. Like what’s the, what’s the biggest bang for someone’s buck? 

[00:10:53] Joel Kahn : Well, number one, I think a message that hopefully other speakers have talked about too is, I use a hashtag on social media; test, not guess.

[00:11:03] Unfortunately, most people see their primary care doc. Wonderful people, hug your primary care doc. They’re not given a lot of thanks. They’re kind of, not as glamorous as neurosurgeons and plastic surgeons in Beverly Hills.

[00:11:17] But they do the same blood work, typically, that was done 30 to 40 years ago. And that not with fitting into the hashtag test not guess.

[00:11:27] So ask. Or order your own. Now, there’s many companies where you can order your own, advanced panels of inflammation. And that’s really the bottom line. If you’re high sensitivity C-reactive protein, and Myeloperoxidase, and Lp-PLA2, and ADMA. These are just alphabet words, but they’re all available. These are all available tests of inflammation.

[00:11:49] And they’re spot on. Then you’re probably, when you look at, you know, diet, weight, sleep, dental health, fitness, stress management. They seem to be working pretty well for you.

[00:12:00] And, if you have a one or a number of those markers, you really gotta dig in deep. I do this all the time. I tell people you haven’t been to the dentist in a year, and you gotta go ask for a real careful analysis. Maybe even, you know, a referral to a periodontal specialist.

[00:12:16] But the one that people haven’t heard of in addition to the alphabet soup is ask your doctor for a blood test called  galectin-3. I’ll spell that again; G-A-L-E-C-T-I-N dash 3.

[00:12:30] People might hear in that word the word lectin. And many people know lectin, L-E-C-T-I-N, because of the book and the work of Dr. Steven Gundry and the Plant Paradox. And there are lectins that are very therapeutic and very healing and very helpful. Missiletoe is one of them, and a missile toe is used as a natural cancer therapy in some clinics.

[00:12:54] But there are lectins, and  galectin-3 is one of ’em, that can ultimately lead to damage, fibrosis, and serious disorders of the liver. And in this instance, let’s talk about heart tissue and specifically, a serious condition called congestive heart failure.

[00:13:12] So get yourself tested. My recommendation, Quest Lab, Lab Corp, for  galectin-3 , a lectin that is released in a variety of inflammatory conditions; cancer, sepsis, hopefully nobody’s dealing with that, that’s listening to this conversation, certain arthritis conditions, rheumatoid arthritis, certain skin conditions, psoriasis.

[00:13:37] But in very serious heart conditions, congestive heart failure  galectin-3 is stimulated as part of the inflammatory process and probably has some therapeutic and healing advantage early in the game, but chronically, as an elevated biomarker, contributes directly to fibrosis and scarring.

[00:14:01] And if you gotta pick an organ, you don’t want to have fibrosis and scarring, you might as well pick your heart. Because we know how critical it is for longevity and quality of life, to have a heart that remains as youthful as possible.

[00:14:15] And then galectin-3, beyond causing inflammation and artery damage and scarring of the heart tissue, does do some other things that people should be aware of. Like promoting fatty liver disease,  galectin-3. Leading to insulin resistance,  galectin-3. Damaging the kidneys through pathways of inflammation, fibrosis. And actually a very interesting series of studies saying that people that are struggling with their weight very often have elevated  galectin-3. And it’s worth checking it. But even more exciting than the ability to check this highly research based, you know, we call it a biomarker, lab test  galectin-3, and seeing if you’re falling in the normal range, intermediate range, or the directly abnormal range, is we have a very natural inhibitor of  galectin-3.

[00:15:10] Now, of course, lose the weight, do the exercise, clean up your diet, get to the dentist, treat your sleep apnea, deal with your skin issues. We’re talking always about a holistic approach to health. But what if we could actually block a major mediator of scarring, fibrosis, inflammation, and some of these other pathologies? And that’s what  galectin-3 is so exciting about, because one of the most interesting natural products that’s available is a great  galectin-3 inhibitor. 

[00:15:42] Dr. Z: And walk us through a little bit about, are there any particular things that contribute to  galectin-3 specifically that people can think from a preventative standpoint?

[00:15:53] Is there, are there certain supplements someone can take? Is there certain lifestyle shifts? Just wondering. Hey, friend, real quick, if you’ve been listening and thinking, I wanna live this way, but I need help, well, that’s exactly why we created the Bible Health Academy. It’s our monthly mentorship and training hub packed with Bible health solutions, non-toxic living strategies, and the like-minded community you need to walk in the abundant life God designed for you.

[00:16:19] Dr. Z new: Whether you’re brand new to natural living or ready to go deeper, this is where transformation happens from the inside out. Visit biblehealthacademy.com to learn more. We hope you’ll join us. 

[00:16:32] Joel Kahn : Yeah. Lifestyle has been studied less and I’ve stressed a couple answers here, that whole range of thought process that a clinician goes through when they’re faced with somebody that has blood test evidence of inflammation, including  galectin-3 elevation. Or you know, otherwise people sometimes just tell you, I feel inflamed and I’ve got brain fog and the rest.

[00:16:54] Certainly you can just find out by a blood test at your local lab, if you have intermediate range, or elevated range of  galectin-3, this important molecule that we all have, but hopefully we have at a very low level. But the interesting research that goes back a couple decades is that there is a supplement that is commercially available, that has researched in many studies and it is natural.

[00:17:19] That’s what’s so interesting about supplements. So it turns out if you take an orange, for example, and everybody loves to eat the juicy segments that are inside, but what about that white part? You know, that’s in the inside of the peel? And we often call that the pectin.

[00:17:35] And the pectin happens to be loaded with a lot of fiber and a lot of interesting molecules. But if we were to ingest, if you were to take a spoon and scoop out that white part of the peel of an orange, or a lime, or a lemon, it’s actually so large that it’s not absorbable into the body.

[00:17:54] Maybe that’s a good thing. You’re gonna get fiber from pectin, and some people actually buy certain pectin supplements for the fiber for constipation and GI issues.

[00:18:04] But it turns out with a small modification, so now we have to call it, modified citrus pectin, the actual molecules of the pectin from a citrus; an orange, a lemon, a lime actually become small and small enough that they can be absorbed inside the body.

[00:18:22] So many people have never heard by abbreviation MCP, or by full words, modified citrus pectin, that this is a supplement. It’s available, it’s been made for years and years. It’s, I think, relatively inexpensive, on the range of many other supplements. It’s taken as a capsule, but it gets absorbed because of its small size, the modification process throughout the body.

[00:18:51] And it is a  galectin-3 blocker. It is a  galectin-3 inhibitor. Very low toxicity agent, of course, given the nature of where it comes from, citrus fruits. And there are many studies in animal models serious conditions like sepsis, serious conditions like memory, and brain health, and brain inflammation in animal models, again, it’s always a bit easier.

[00:19:20] Very recently in a rat model of brain inflammation, modified citrus pectin, was tested and found to be very useful to block the fibrosis pathway of  galectin-3 in improving the ways that they measure brain health, in this rat model that just was published. But that’s far from the first study.

[00:19:42] And where the human data is most exciting is congestive heart failure. There are many studies that acute congestive heart failure, maybe somebody presents the emergency room short of breath, their ankles are swollen, their chest x-ray looks full of fluid and they respond to diuretics. That if you measure  galectin-3 in that patient, they may be sky high and they’re at risk for their heart developing, scarring and long-term permanent damage.

[00:20:12] And if you look at the other part, which is called chronic congestive heart failure. Just a situation, not in an emergency room, but where short of breath up the stairs, difficulty lying flat at night unless you prop yourself up, weight varying a lot, great need to watch your salt intake and probably be on some serious prescription drugs.

[00:20:33] If you check  galectin-3 in chronic congestive heart failure in humans, you’ll find very high levels. And the studies say those patients with acute congestive heart failure and high  galectin-3, or chronic congestive heart failure and high  galectin-3, are really at risk.

[00:20:50] I mean, we know those are serious conditions, but some people are in better shape than others. And the biomarker  galectin-3 really identifies the high risk population. And that’s where adding in modified citrus pectin known as PectaSol, which can be bought as a powder that you put scoops in water and drink, or can be bought as capsules, that you take that way. Rather easy way to get it in, can block  galectin-3.

[00:21:16] Can be inhibitor of  galectin-3 and add to the approach, a natural approach to the scarring and the permanent damage of both acute and chronic congestive heart failure in humans. And you know, how many humans with congestive heart failure are being treated with Peticol modified citrus pectin? Not a lot. And if cardiologists and other practitioners would actually go and read these studies, I think they’d be impressed and it would become more of the approach to it. So that’s why we’re talking about it, because it is not just a theoretical conversation. It’s something we can do now.

[00:21:53] The other thing I’d say is there’s always been data for decades that heavy metals; the lead, the cadmium, the arsenics, really can accumulate in the heart. There’s a famous study where they were doing heart biopsies on humans, and they measured these heavy metal toxins and they were sky high in the heart tissue in people with weak hearts.

[00:22:16] But what do you do about it? And it turns out modified citrus pectin binds heavy metals. They get trapped in the fiber of this citrus based pectin and again, they are absorbed through the GI tract, so they’re in the bloodstream and they combine the heavy metals in the bloodstream.

[00:22:34] And that certainly is another approach in my clinic when I determine that somebody has high heavy metal burden, which is so many people nowadays, modified citrus pictin, PectaSol is part of the approach to that problem. And one very well tolerated. 

[00:22:51] Dr. Z: I wanna encourage people here, that this is being embraced by the conventional medical community. And as you’re talking, I’m just kind of, I’m not fact checking, but I’m just exploring and you know that’s my background as a public health researcher. Folks, this is from the National Cancer Institute.

[00:23:09] I quote, “Modified citrus pectin supplement, a dietary supplement containing modified citrus pectin derived from the soluble fiber, citrus fruit peels, and a  galectin-3 inhibitor with potential antioxidant, hypocholesterolemia, stimulatory, metal chelating, anti metastatic activities. I mean, like literally everything you just said was summarized by the National Cancer Institute.

[00:23:30] And this is no hippie, off the wall, let’s jump over a stick and holler at the moon, patchouli stuff, right? I mean, we get criticized all the time in our world.

[00:23:38] Supplements, essential oils, these products, if well manufactured, pure, and clean have dramatic effects on the body. And I just wanted to point out, this is very encouraging to me and I’m so grateful to see cardiologists like yourself embracing this because this is a much more holistic approach to our health and integrative. I was hoping what you could do is guide us if you have it. I don’t wanna put you on the spot with, specific protocols per se, but I would love any guidance that you could provide on dosing as a preventative measure. And also, one thing I wanna not forget is recovery. Post heart attack, post-incident, post-stroke.

[00:24:20] How would you use modified citrus pectin through both preventative treatment and recovery? If you have experience, we would love to hear that. 

[00:24:28] Joel Kahn : Yeah. And an argument could be made. Now, it’s not a study that’s yet been done, you know.

[00:24:34] Could we actually document benefit if everybody took some modified citrus pectin as a longevity agent, as a, approach to dealing with the fact that we’re all exposed to heavy metals and other toxins? And that would be a fascinating study. Those are obviously a hard studies to do. And probably need to be done first in animal models.

[00:24:55] But in a human, that dose is typically around six capsules of modified citrus pectin daily. And they can be taken all at once. And again, from personal experience, there’s no GI upset or another problems.

[00:25:10] When we get into disease states; congestive heart failure, actual chronic inflammatory states, rheumatoid arthritis, concern about brain inflammation, neuroinflammation, certainly cancer sepsis situations, in which are not the areas that I treat, but I’ve read the literature and discuss it with some of the scientists on  galectin-3, we may be talking more like 12 to 18 capsules a day.

[00:25:37] And that’s where the powder becomes a little more useful. You know, once you get past six capsules, and many people are taking other supplements at the same time. Yeah. The idea of taking 12 capsules and 18 capsules may chase some people away. We don’t wanna do that.

[00:25:51] So, powder, you know, in a drink is an easy way. Presumably, you could even put the powder in a smoothie, and the dosing is on the bottles of PectaSol, modified citrus pectin. But for most, six capsules a day would be the goal as an add-on, as a protector, and an inhibitor of this important pathway.

[00:26:12] And, again, we’ve got animal basis to talk about. Obesity, sepsis, cancer, high blood pressure. I know the audience is sophisticated. They know the word endothelial dysfunction, and there is data about modified citrus pectin, improving endothelial function, which, in a population of people with erectile dysfunction or high blood pressure or coronary disease is important.

[00:26:37] Now, the holy grail would be, and it’s always a hard human study, is there is some mouse data about modified citrus pectin actually shrinking plaque in arteries. Whoa. That’s exciting. So, it waits for somebody with an ambitious and well-funded study to either look at carotid plaque or heart plaque in humans and see if we could ever reproduce that, you know.

[00:27:04] There are reasons why that might happen. Lowering inflammation, lowering heavy metal burden would all be theoretical pathways, but, at this point, that’s still theoretical in humans. 

[00:27:15] Dr. Z: So, would you recommend that someone, anyone really make this part of their daily protocol? Or do you have to specifically be concerned about something.

[00:27:28] For example, I’m thinking multivitamin, people taking their vitamin C just because, right? How many people are taking calcium just because? We could argue those don’t have the benefit as they should.

[00:27:38] But would this be one of those, like if you were King of America, would you mandate that this would be in all the kids’ school lunches?

[00:27:46] Joel Kahn : Well, I think from a safety standpoint, you could make a reasonable argument about that. Given its origins that I talked about we’re not dealing with a synthetic product allergies with something that’s, from a citrus origin would be very low. And the fact that it’s been used in humans for years and years and years and years.

[00:28:05] So, given, the statistic that, you know, 93% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy and probably a lot of listeners to the summit are in that 7% that are metabolically healthy. But given that 93% are not, I think an argument could be made if we could control the immune response, lower excessive inflammation responses, help with detoxification at least of heavy metals and possibly, promote more optimal aging, this would be a real good one.

[00:28:39] You hear talk about rapamycin, and metformin, and total plasma exchange, and some other approaches for wellness and biohacking. Well, I would put this way above the others in terms of already a good science basis, and certainly for most of those, much less toxic and, much less expensive.

[00:29:01] Dr. Z: Well, I appreciate it and you mentioned this product that I wanna share here. And we thank EcoNugenics for being a You mentioned PectaSol and I kind of put you on the spot, but that’s what they say. They’re claiming it’s a daily essential daily supplement support, optimal long-term health and aging.

[00:29:15] And I love this. This isn’t a sales pitch y’all, but you mentioned something. There is something it’s real. Pill fatigue, capsule fatigue is real, right? And so that’s why I’m grateful companies are coming out with chewables stick packs, powders. I myself, again, it’s hard.

[00:29:29] I have six soon to have seven babies. It’s so easy to put a scoop of this in their smoothie, like even with kids. So bottom line, it appears that we’re looking at dosing. You triple the daily recommended dose if you’re dealing with a preventative or specific treatment issue for a specific issue. But if you just wanna be healthy like me and you have no, risk factors, and consider just following the instructions on the label.

[00:29:55] This has been great, doc. I really like the fact that, we can’t get this in food. And this is the key. I’m glad you clarified the pectin in the citrus because my initial instinct was, well, why can’t I just put a whole orange, for example, in my smoothie and blend it up? But that doesn’t work like that.

[00:30:12] So these are one of those we could call essential supplements. ’cause if you cannot get this in the food that you consume, you have to supplement it one way or another. And this appears to be the best way of doing it. So. Wow.

[00:30:25] This has been great. We’re at time here. I would love to give you an opportunity if you have, and keep on going if you wanna go, but I appreciate your, I know you’re super busy and I know you have patients lined up today.

[00:30:35] Anything else you’d like to share with everybody? 

[00:30:37] Joel Kahn : No, I think, you hit some high points there on conclusion, one scoop a day is a great maintenance dose and, it’s far less expensive than a cup of coffee at the coffee shop on a daily basis.

[00:30:48] So it’s within reach of everybody to do something for their aging starting today. 

[00:30:54] Dr. Z: That’s 

[00:30:54] Joel Kahn : awesome. 

[00:30:54] Dr. Z: Well, folks get connected with our sponsor, ecoNugenics and also Dr. Kahn. Go to dr joel kahn.com. Wealth of information, a lot of great information. You’re gonna love what he has. He has an upcoming heart disease summit as well that you’re gonna wanna get plugged into.

[00:31:08] And as always, this is Dr. Eric Zielinski, my hope and prayers that you and your family truly experience an abundant life. Thanks for listening to the Natural Living Family Podcast. Hope today’s conversation encouraged and challenged you to live a healthier, more abundant life. Tune in next week for another life transforming discussion. 

[00:31:27] If today’s episode blessed you, please share it with a friend and leave a review. This helps more families discover the hope and healing found in God’s word. For show notes, transcripts and resources from today’s episode, visit natural living family podcast.com. And as always, this is Dr. Z. My hope and prayer is that you and your family truly experience the abundant life.

[00:31:48] God bless. Talk to you soon.

[00:31:51]